[K Bolas (lespaul1963)]

I remember reading an article in one of the guitar mags on the plane to Nashville last summer that described some of the Moderne's history. I seem to recall that there was some sort of controversy as to whether there were any of the surviving Moderne prototypes. The article stated that the instrument never went into full production and that there were a handful of prototypes made and that ultimately Ted McCarty ordered the prototypes destroyed. It was rumored that one or two were spared the axe by an unnamed Gibson employee. Supposedly Billy Gibbons owns one of them that he has allowed to be obliquely photographed and yet never examined or vetted for authenticity. Any truth to this? It sure looks a lot more comfortable to hold and play as compared to an Explorer or a V. I'd like to see one re-issued...maybe with the Firebird-style tuners, just to be even more unique.

[r wood (ron)]

K Bolas (lespaul1963), on 26 July 2010 - 10:42 AM, said:

I remember reading an article in one of the guitar mags on the plane to Nashville last summer that described some of the Moderne's history. I seem to recall that there was some sort of controversy as to whether there were any of the surviving Moderne prototypes. The article stated that the instrument never went into full production and that there were a handful of prototypes made and that ultimately Ted McCarty ordered the prototypes destroyed. It was rumored that one or two were spared the axe by an unnamed Gibson employee. Supposedly Billy Gibbons owns one of them that he has allowed to be obliquely photographed and yet never examined or vetted for authenticity. Any truth to this? It sure looks a lot more comfortable to hold and play as compared to an Explorer or a V. I'd like to see one re-issued...maybe with the Firebird-style tuners, just to be even more unique.

That sounds like the Premier Guitar article. I was interviewed for that.

Billy Gibbons has two Modernes. Both are fakes.

At least one was made in the 50's as a prototype. It was offered for sale to an employee along with the prototype Futura(what eventually turned into the Explorer). The employee turned down buying the Moderne and got the Futura. The rest is history. So far, no one has seen or verified an original Moderne.

[R Chevalier (Doc C)]

If a Gibson re-issue of the re-issue were made available I would definitely give it some serious consideration to go with the V and the Explorer. And since we're wishing, I'd wish for the headstock. I've never seen a picture of a "real" Moderne and many of the "histories" dispute that it ever really made it past prototype as there would be something out there somewhere wouldn't there?

Again on the wishing part, I would wish for it to be built of African Limba (Korina is not a real word) as were the originals but call it Korina since pretty much everyone thinks that Korina is a real thing. I learned this from Walter Carter's book and he would know.

Cheers,

Ross

[R Chevalier (Doc C)]

J Tee (jeffwith1f), on 17 July 2010 - 07:02 PM, said:

I wanted Gibson to re-release a Moderne until I found one of the first 80's era Modernes. Now I am somewhat ambivelent from a collectors point of view. I have one serioulsy rare insturment, and a further re-release would water that down some.

Maybe a re-release with the Split V headstock? (in cherry please). assuming pricing was in line with other recent limited releases I'd absolutely buy one.

What I'm still waiting on is a Reverse Moderne. Seriously. I need to complete that set.

perhaps I should have prefaced this with a statement about how much I love odd-ball instruments, Gibsons in particular.

Those are beautiful dude. Congrats!

[r wood (ron)]

R Chevalier (Doc C), on 27 July 2010 - 05:49 PM, said:

... many of the "histories" dispute that it ever really made it past prototype as there would be something out there somewhere wouldn't there?

Again on the wishing part, I would wish for it to be built of African Limba (Korina is not a real word) as were the originals but call it Korina since pretty much everyone thinks that Korina is a real thing. I learned this from Walter Carter's book and he would know.

Cheers,

Ross

Hi Ross,

Just because a Moderne has not surfaced, does not mean it's isn't out there. I can think of a few reasons why the owner would wish to remain anonymous.

Gibson employees who worked there at the time have said a Moderne was built:

Ted McCarty said one more than one occasion a Moderne was made.
Juluis Bellson said the Korina models were displayed at a show in Germany in 1957.
John Huis also said the Moderne existed.
A couple of other workers from that period have also told me the Moderne existed.

It's very possible that the orignal Moderne was Mahogany.

[K Bolas (lespaul1963)]

Ron...thank you for the feedback. I believe it was Premiere Guitar. Billy's show-biz persona has always entailed some degree of mystery. How do you know that Billy's are fakes? Just curious...not meant as a challenge.

[r wood (ron)]

K Bolas (lespaul1963), on 27 July 2010 - 11:01 PM, said:

Ron...thank you for the feedback. I believe it was Premiere Guitar. Billy's show-biz persona has always entailed some degree of mystery. How do you know that Billy's are fakes? Just curious...not meant as a challenge.

I was told by source @ Guitar World magazine how the guitar was offered to Billy and the circumstances of Billy finding out it was fake. In his cover issue in 1984,they wanted to do a "Collectors Choice" centerfold and feature the guitar...then, the guy who sold him the guitar found out what was going on and got very nervous and the truth came out. Billy was not happy at all. So the centerfold piece was scrapped. I was also told who did the work on the guitar.

The 2nd Moderne is a Bolin. It's no secret that Bolin builds all Billy's wacky guitars and especially the one he uses on stage. Billy also said in an interview with a German magazine that a well known luthier had built the guitar. I know that luthier and when asked he told me he did not built it.

Besides that, I asked them and Gibson told me they didn't make it.


I attempted to get Billy to talk about them for my book but he did not respond to my many inquiries.

Of course, you don't have to believe any of this, but I'll stand by what I say.

Why he chooses to perpetuate the mystery of his Modernes is beyond me but if it helps him keep his mojo, I'm all for that.

[K Bolas (lespaul1963)]

Ron...you seem to be a pretty stand-up guy. I haven't any reason not to believe you. Your account seems credible.

[P Petiniot (Blues4U)]

I think the Moderne is the most but ugly guitar ever built--or not ever built;)

[I Stoddard (Low-B 5-String)]

P Petiniot (Blues4U), on 28 July 2010 - 07:21 AM, said:

I think the Moderne is the most but ugly guitar ever built--or not ever built;)

How does this help it become a product?

[P Petiniot (Blues4U)]

I Stoddard (Low-B 5-String), on 28 July 2010 - 08:45 AM, said:

How does this help it become a product?

I guess my point was this---It never made it into full production because there was no real market for it--

I doubt the 25 guys that would buy one would be enough to ofset the cost of tooling up to build it--

So I guess I am saying "why waste the time and money developing something nobody will buy"

[K Bolas (lespaul1963)]

I have a feeling that Gibson would sell way more than just 25. I mean at what point, number-wise, does something like this turn a profit?

[K Gilbert (Kevin1960)]

How about bringing back the Voodoo models?

[R Willard (Rybass)]

P Petiniot (Blues4U), on 28 July 2010 - 11:25 AM, said:

I guess my point was this---It never made it into full production because there was no real market for it--

I doubt the 25 guys that would buy one would be enough to ofset the cost of tooling up to build it--

So I guess I am saying "why waste the time and money developing something nobody will buy"

Where is your research? For craps sake the Epiphone version sells for over $1k on ebay on a regular basis. They have a fanbase, the tooling is there somewhere if Epi was turning them out a few years ago. A limited run (guitar of the month) would give them an idea of the popularity and they can go from there as far as mass production.

There may have been no market in the 50's-60's just like there was no market for the Explorer or V then either but things have proven to be different now for those two models.

[r wood (ron)]

R Willard (Rybass), on 28 July 2010 - 02:14 PM, said:

Where is your research? For craps sake the Epiphone version sells for over $1k on ebay on a regular basis. They have a fanbase, the tooling is there somewhere if Epi was turning them out a few years ago. A limited run (guitar of the month) would give them an idea of the popularity and they can go from there as far as mass production.

There may have been no market in the 50's-60's just like there was no market for the Explorer or V then either but things have proven to be different now for those two models.

Modernes from the run in 82-82 didnt sell well at the time...but try to buy one now and it's going to run you over 5k. And yes, the Epiphones Modernes from 2002 are going for upwards of a thousand dollars.

sounds like a winner to me

[r wood (ron)]

P Petiniot (Blues4U), on 28 July 2010 - 11:25 AM, said:

I guess my point was this---It never made it into full production because there was no real market for it--

I doubt the 25 guys that would buy one would be enough to ofset the cost of tooling up to build it--

So I guess I am saying "why waste the time and money developing something nobody will buy"

No one knows why the Moderne didn't go into production in the 50's, but the other two Korina models didn't sell well either. I don't think it's fair to say it's because people didn't like the Moderne. They didn't like ANY of them-lol Well...maybe the V.

As for a market for them today...Let me say this: more than 25 people like this model.

After my book(Moderne-Holy Grail of Vintage Guitars) was published and I corresponded with the people who bought the book, I can say that at least 100 people would buy a Moderne were it to be reissued.

[I Stoddard (Low-B 5-String)]

And my inclination to play and perhaps own one has to do with its size/comfort factors, not "Grail"/collectability.

I think it looks better than the Shark Fin, as long as I can find one with either Flying-V or Explorer headstocks.

Were it to be reissued, that is.

[J Tee (jeffwith1f)]

I am one of the people that would buy one. (although I would consider it a kindness if the street price was kept around $2500)
however, I fit r woods profile.
-own a RI Moderne
-own the book-clearly obsessed with shapes instruments from Gibson.

although I see the point, even the RI model didn't sell terribly well when it was (re)released.

That being said, it was the early 80's. it was mostly superstrats in vogue back then. Guitar collecting, such as we know it now, was still at a relatively early part of the ramp up. I think the market would be much more receptive now. Certainly selling between 500 and 1000 units should not be a problem. seems a perfect candidate for a Limited Edition run.

[N Dodd (Cpt Albatross)]

So Henry, any thoughts on this possibly happening, or atleast how you feel about it? Maybe some with banana headstocks like the explorer instead of a paddle? Possibly some in Candy Apple Red?

[C Bechmann-Pedersen (RRhoads)]

People can say whatever they want about Gibson's design, and I will be the first one to admit that I don't like every design they make, but you've got to give them credit for trying. People hated the Flying V and the Explorer when they first came out as well, and see where they are now.

About the Moderne: Like the guy above me said, put a "bullet" style head stockon it, but I could do without the pick guard.