[B Itzkin (Brazilian Rosewood)]

Hello, There are many Martin dealers such as Elderly instruments, Maury's music, My Favorite guitars and a few other dealers that offer a 40% discount. Are there any Gibson dealers that offer this same type of discount?

[M Russo (Mark)]

Every Gibson I see at GC,Sam Ash all offer X amount off retail. I am also in the retail business and I
like seeing Gibson maintaining their margins. When one company decides to sell something at a
ridiculously low price it brings down market value.

The best example is the TV war that wal-mart started two years ago Christmas....it put Circuit City out
of business.

[D Kuther (kuther)]

B Itzkin (Brazilian Rosewood), on 18 July 2010 - 09:51 PM, said:

Hello, There are many Martin dealers such as Elderly instruments, Maury's music, My Favorite guitars and a few other dealers that offer a 40% discount. Are there any Gibson dealers that offer this same type of discount?

As a comparison I just went to the GC website and their price for the LP 'Standard' Traditional is 33% off the List price.

Isn't around 28 to 40% or so kind of standard these days for MAP?

[J GGoerge (joey257)]

Yep - I'm thinking they're making 30% or so on a typical guitar.

[K Bolas (lespaul1963)]

What's the point of having an MSRP and then an actual retail of 30% to 40% less? Never understood that. No one in their right mind would pay the MSRP as a usual and customary practice. Monetary worth to me is reflected on how many C-notes I am pulling out of my wallet to acquire a particular guitar or amp. The MSRP has no real meaning to me in that context. What's the point of having it if it is just so much fiction? This isn't a rhetorical question, really....any ideas as to why there are two prices?

[D Kuther (kuther)]

K Bolas (lespaul1963), on 22 July 2010 - 07:44 PM, said:

What's the point of having an MSRP and then an actual retail of 30% to 40% less? Never understood that. No one in their right mind would pay the MSRP as a usual and customary practice. Monetary worth to me is reflected on how many C-notes I am pulling out of my wallet to acquire a particular guitar or amp. The MSRP has no real meaning to me in that context. What's the point of having it if it is just so much fiction? This isn't a rhetorical question, really....any ideas as to why there are two prices?

Back in the days before the internet and superstores, I remember the MSRP being pretty much the price you PAID.

You could call around and see who might offer a deal, etc. but as I recall there weren't '2' prices. Kind of similar to buying a Macintosh today. Check all the websites and stores and the price IS the price.

But with MAP and the big chains immediately advertising at that price, THAT's the real street-price.

Why they don't just make MAP and MSRP the same at this point I don't know.

[B Putt (Access)]

D Kuther (kuther), on 22 July 2010 - 07:50 PM, said:

Back in the days before the internet and superstores, I remember the MSRP being pretty much the price you PAID.

You could call around and see who might offer a deal, etc. but as I recall there weren't '2' prices. Kind of similar to buying a Macintosh today. Check all the websites and stores and the price IS the price.

But with MAP and the big chains immediately advertising at that price, THAT's the real street-price.

Why they don't just make MAP and MSRP the same at this point I don't know.

...Because today's customers need the "illusion" of a value. Take Wal-mart for example, there are MANY products that can be had for considerably lower prices elsewhere, but Wal Mart, through many clever avenues, has built the illusion that everything purchased there is at the lowest price available. People walk away thinking they are saving money when in fact people have spent more then they had to. Kind of like a fat woman who thinks she can eat a whole box of cookies because they are advertised as "Low Fat", she will gain even more weight to her detriment.

Most manufacturers will NEVER drop MSRP due simply to the fact that it helps it's dealers sell through merchandise to customers who need this comfort blanket of perceived savings.

[J GGoerge (joey257)]

B Putt (Access), on 23 July 2010 - 09:53 AM, said:

...Because today's customers need the "illusion" of a value...

Nice - explains GC Et. Al. perfectly!

[C Yiannias (Yiann)]

J Galante (Johnny G), on 23 July 2010 - 11:14 AM, said:

Nice - explains GC Et. Al. perfectly!

Pricing strategy is probably a whole sub-profession within business and marketing people.

MSRP is Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price and has no relation to real-world prices, right?

MAP is Minimum Advertised Price - Which is the minimum that any authorized retailer can advertise a new instrument for.

Apple enforces MAP like crazy. You get busted selling below their "line" and you can forget about getting more product to sell.

[J GGoerge (joey257)]

C Yiannias (Yiann), on 23 July 2010 - 11:45 AM, said:

MAP is Minimum Advertised Price...You get busted selling below their "line" and you can forget about getting more product to sell.

Do you get busted for selling below it, or for just advertising that below the line price?

Henry posted elsewhere that they cannot tell a dealer what to sell for.(??)

[B Putt (Access)]

J Galante (Johnny G), on 23 July 2010 - 11:53 AM, said:

Do you get busted for selling below it, or for just advertising that below the line price?

Henry posted elsewhere that they cannot tell a dealer what to sell for.

This is America. You can sell stuff for whatever you want.

The term "busted" means that Gibson stops selling product to this certain dealer.

Gibson is trying to keep a level of distinction with their products, as is Apple. An Apple retailer can sell products for below MSRP, but doesn't do so because there would be no profit in it! If you sell a million items at zero profit, you have less than zero to show for it! Apple builds about a 17% profit margin for the retailer, that's why there is not a ton of retailers wanting to sell apple other than easy to vend I pods! Most retailers stick to MAP so they can honestly say "We have the guaranteed lowest price".

Again, retailers LOVE MAP pricing! It builds in a margin protection from idiot retailers who just want to drop their pants on price.

Enforcement is on Advertising or portraying the product or company in a light that does not match the corporate strategy.

[C Yiannias (Yiann)]

J Galante (Johnny G), on 23 July 2010 - 11:53 AM, said:

Do you get busted for selling below it, or for just advertising that below the line price?

Henry posted elsewhere that they cannot tell a dealer what to sell for.

I can tell you from my personal experience that any store can sell at whatever price they feel like.

A few years ago I picked up a new guitar with an MSRP of $1,200, MAP of $700 (ok, 1,199 and 699 respectively) and actually paid $550. It's all in what the store is trying to move. (It wasen't a Gibson, or Epihone, fyi)

[J GGoerge (joey257)]

Quote

The term "busted" means that Gibson stops selling product to this certain dealer.

Again - would Gibson bust them for selling below MAP, or only for advertising that low price?

I want to make sure about this topic, as I thought one could do better then GC Et. Al. prices, which are for the most part at MAP I assume(?).

Hmmm...kind of makes that whole Guitar Center, Sam Ash, etc. "Low Advertised Price" guarantee pretty much usless then.

Quote

I can tell you from my personal experience that any store can sell at whatever price they feel like.

Agreed, but will they get busted as B Putt says, or are they OK as long as they don't advertise that below-MAP price?

[C Yiannias (Yiann)]

Quote

Agreed, but will they get busted as B Putt says, or are they OK as long as they don't advertise that below-MAP price?

I am not a dealer, but I am willing to bet that Gibson doesn't care if you let your entire Gibson inventory out the door for $1. Obviously you won't stay in business very long if you sell for less than you buy AND cover your overhead.

The point of Minimum Advertised Price is to keep prices up instead of competing to the point where you are cutting down your margins to nothing. This is no different than auto sales.

If a customer is willing to commit to calling, haggling with every guitar shop in his town than maybe he'll get a better price, but if one of the guitar stores put a price that's significantly lower EVERYONE will expect that price... and if it's on the web that means everyone in the country. I would say world, but there are customs, transportation and warranty limitations to shipping certain goods to other countries.

In regard to guarantees being different/invalidated in different countries this may not be valid with guitars, but definitely with cars.

[J GGoerge (joey257)]

That's what I thought - well - hoped anyway!

Thanks for the patience.

Figure these days even the smallest shops should know exactly what MAP is, or be able to check it in a heartbeat on-line...doesn't seem it would be too hard to find one willing do what they have to beat that price & make a sale. (if you can find one who can sell Gibsons!)

[K Gilbert (Kevin1960)]

K Bolas (lespaul1963), on 22 July 2010 - 05:44 PM, said:

What's the point of having an MSRP and then an actual retail of 30% to 40% less? Never understood that. No one in their right mind would pay the MSRP as a usual and customary practice. Monetary worth to me is reflected on how many C-notes I am pulling out of my wallet to acquire a particular guitar or amp. The MSRP has no real meaning to me in that context. What's the point of having it if it is just so much fiction? This isn't a rhetorical question, really....any ideas as to why there are two prices?

It has become the culture of guitar sales. I think it starts with a desire to "add value" to the line. The discounts vary from model to model and by brand. I really don't understand it either. To me it is simpler and more forthright to set a price and offer discounts that work withing the margins that the manufacturer wants to maintain. Then once the retailers get them they can sell them taking their costs and vendor agreements into consideration. Even though I have amassed a good collection of instruments, I really have no idea how much it costs to make them. I am sure that there are a ton of variables such as quality wood availability, shipping costs for parts and normal overhead of maintaining a plant with heat air and of course the machinery. Labor costs tend to be somewhat predictable because you know what people make and how much they are going to work.

[p carlino (jimihendrix)]

How do "Blowout" sales come into play...???...The Holy Vee MSRP is $2,799.00...Yet they get blown out for $949.00...That's roughly 66 per cent off...Doesn't that "cheapen" the Gibson name...???...I guess the longer a guitar sits unsold...it just takes up valuable space where a more popular model could reside...

What about selling used guitars privately...they never sell for anywhere near MSRP...or MAP...even if they are in dead mint condition...rare or limited production models...

[K Bolas (lespaul1963)]

p carlino (jimihendrix), on 28 September 2010 - 03:18 PM, said:

How do "Blowout" sales come into play...???...The Holy Vee MSRP is $2,799.00...Yet they get blown out for $949.00...That's roughly 66 per cent off...Doesn't that "cheapen" the Gibson name...???...I guess the longer a guitar sits unsold...it just takes up valuable space where a more popular model could reside...

What about selling used guitars privately...they never sell for anywhere near MSRP...or MAP...even if they are in dead mint condition...rare or limited production models...

Carlino,

Here's another one at Musician's Friend... their "Stupid Deal of the Day" feature (for Wednesday, 29 September 2010).






Gibson Limited Run Tribal V Electric Guitar (Satin White)
Read 3 Reviews


$799.00
Was: $2,165.00

MSRP: $3,608.00 Savings: $2809.00(77%)

http://guitars.music...itar?sku=527772

[p carlino (jimihendrix)]

A quote from Wiki...

http://en.wikipedia....ed_retail_price

"The (manufacturer's) suggested retail price ((M)SRP), list price or recommended retail price (RRP) of a product is the price which the manufacturer recommends that the retailer sell the product. The intention was to help to standardize prices among locations. While some stores always sell at, or below, the suggested retail price, others do so only when items are on sale or closeout."...

"Suggested prices can also be manipulated to be unreasonably high, allowing retailers to use deceptive advertising by showing the excessive price and then their actual selling price, implying to customers that they are getting a bargain"

[m dailey (milod)]

I believe I recall HenryJ noting that the MSRP is largely a value reference - at least apparently so at Gibson. That's not at all bad.

What I find interesting is there appears to be a secondary level of prices agreed upon in ways by the major outlets I've seen from a google. E.g., an Epi Dot at 399. Why not 395? I dunno. Is that price fixing in a potentially illegal manner? I dunno.

For what it's worth, I've also seen strings being sold for significantly more than MSRP - and I've a hunch ditto the actual guitars in one shop.

m