[J Lund (JRL)]

H Juszkiewicz (HenryJ), on 18 July 2010 - 10:07 AM, said:

I have to make a bold statement, which many of you may not agree with.

The reason that small dealers are dying is because consumers will not support them. In a free economy, it is you the fan and the customer who gets to choose by spending your hard earned money. If you spend your money at small dealers, I can guarantee Gibson and everyone else in the industry will be there. The fact is, as a group, you do not spend your money there.

There is not a single consumer who does not look at Thoman's catalog offerings in Europe. His prices are incredibly aggressive, the service is exceptional and he has a 500,000 square foot distribution center that ships product to most consumers within 24 hours. He has millions invested in inventory.

He is an aggressive and competent business man who is able to make a profit even though his prices are very low (very low profit margins). No small shop in Europe can stay in business at his very competitive prices, and so where do consumers buy?

Since I have been in this industry, I have found it to be the most price oriented business in the world. Every guitar player seeks out the lowest priced product, and then goes to the local shop and says, "Sell me your guitar at this price or I will walk". These small shop owners gets dozens of calls every day from people shopping price. If they put their inventory online, the situation gets even worse as guitar players will shop the world and hammer the poor small business person. Come on guys, who is going to tell me they know a player that paid more of a guitar because of a relationship. Yes it happens, but not enough to support a small shop. People do not as a rule pay more regardless. I don't think they should have too. I think the fan is always right, and we are there to service our valuable fan. And the best way to get a lower price on a product is to buy from an aggressive merchant that does high volume and probably has only so-so service.

Look at other industries. Look at consumer electronics. How many small stores are left. Where do you buy a big screen TV: Best Buy, Dixon's, Amazon or Joe's TV Shop? Why is Walmart the largest retailer in the world, because they charge higher prices, and have a more limited selection?

Brands and companies react to what consumers want. That is the only way we can succeed. My sin is that I have studied other industries and have gone to where consumers are going before other brands and companies in this industry. I have used strategies and tactics that allowed brands and companies to thrive, and ruined companies that did not adopt them. The sin is to give to consumers what they really want based on their buying behavior.

People bring up stores like Centre City Music, and Gruhn's as small merchants. They may have smaller stores, but they are some of the largest volume dealers in the country and they are extremely aggressive in pricing as is the great store in Cologne which is building a new distribution warehouse with thousands of square feet.

We do our share to support those retailers that have a good customer base. We have Business Development Managers that help them with annual business plans, District Product Specialists that travel to the store and help with training and merchandising, Relationship managers that provide direct line account support, and an extensive 24 hour computerized systems allowing account management. We give smaller dealers significantly better credit terms than large dealer because the smaller guys have a harder time with financing. The average store turns a guitar 4 times a year (Thomann probably 20 times a year) and we extend 90 day terms meaning we fully finance the independent store site. This cost $$$$ money. We cannot support a single store visit that can easily run $1000 when the store sells 10 of our instruments a year, let alone the rich support each of our retailers get.

While you may complain about the demise of small local retailers, it is not the brands and companies that are killing them. It is the price driven consumer. It has happened in every industry, and it is now happening in ours. I think, the consumer and fan are always right.

Wal-Mart can charge low prices because they squeeze their suppliers. Gibson is in the enviable position of having product that the retailers, large and small, all need and want. There is a very small store near me that is the largest volume Taylor retailer within 250 miles...he has great prices, wonderful service and personal attention to his customers. I bet his store is less than 1,000 square feet in size. The reason he does well is that Taylor treats him well as a customer...and he moves more product than the GC down the road with the 19 year old salesperson who can't even spell intonation.

I understand the economics of volume/pricing/inventory turns...but many of us are Gibson fans from our experiences as young musicians hanging out in the local music store. Perhaps Gibson needs to explore this as a business challenge and be creative - a couple of ideas (not proven and just off the top of my head): most small stores offer band instruments in a rent-to-own arrangement...perhaps Gibson can set up a program for this...the income from rental can offset the instrument costs for the retailer, and when a percentage come back to inventory, they now have some nice used stock to sell. Or...maybe set up a school program that is handled exclusively by small retailers - possibly related to the Gibson Kids program. Just my thoughts...please don't give up on the independents...

[M Bartee (M. Bartee)]

So why were many smaller stores no longer allowed to show their inventory on the web? This only makes it harder for the smaller store to move product. I know of a few instances where the smaller stores were moving large numbers of custom shop instruments yet can no longer use the power of the web to their advantage. I spent 12 years in retail managing a local music store and ran into companies constantly increasing their annual minimum order requirements. We found alternative brands to carry when it got to the point of being ridiculous. I still feel that a dozen small specialty stores that know their products and are allowed to use the web will out sell GC/MF etc... At least to me they will. I purchased my R9 from one of the small stores that can no longer list Gibson instruments on their site after the GC/MF merge. Thankfully there are still a few but it sure limits your choices as a consumer.

[B Putt (Access)]

There is also a Double standard here that has NOT been addressed.

1.) When Independent dealers sign up with Gibson they are assured a protected Territory, however when GC or Best Buy pops in their territory there is nothing done.

If another independent dealer was to do this they would be denied the line, but it is allowed for the chain store.

This is a practice that is skewed in favor of the chain to the detriment of the Independent.

2.) Everyone wants to go on about the buying requirements. I somewhat agree with you that if you want to be a Gibson "partner" you should represent the line well and not just have a few of the cheaper models, however MOST GC stores as well as Best Buy have only the "Best sellers" in stock! The average GC is loaded with Faded LPs and SGs, and maybe has less than 5 Gloss finish models. Acoustics are sparse at best (maybe a songwriter and one other one) and Memphis stuff is basically one cherry 335!

How is this "Representing the line"?

Again a double standard exists here.

3.) You made a veiled reference to your "hook rule" when you said due to your 33% market share the dealer should represent at least that much in his store brand wise. You are a very smart Harvard Grad, so you know that Market share can be determined by many factors, you are most likely using a gross sales number to determine yours (which is fine) however by requiring dealers to have 33% (Although Ive heard 50%) of their wall hooks represent Gibson Product is just unrealistic! One Les Paul standard costs as much as twenty "economy" Dean Evo models! With prices high, the market share will be high, but that doesn't reflect actual unit market share!

There is no way that any GC in the world has 33% of their hooks filled with Gibson family products! More and more they are pushing their house brand Lag%%a stuff on people after someone plays a Gibson product! As you mentioned they push the customer to the best price. Best buy does the same thing with their westinghouse and other brands.



Manufacturers have learned a hard lesson about getting in bed with big companies. It's all fun until they find a more profitable solution.

Yes, all people get into business to make money, yourself included, but most Inde guys start because of a passion for Music. This passion translates to sales of stuff they are passionate about.

[P Petiniot (Blues4U)]

B Putt--- I fully agree with what you said--

[J Scott (Jimmydeuce)]

Excellent post B Putt and I agree with you 100%. It takes me an hour to get to my closest GC. The 'Sales Dudes' that work there don't have a clue about different LP models but can tell you everything about the pointy guitar with the blood splatter paint job and broooootal pickups. 'Dude, just think how much better you'll sound tuned down to Q Flat.'

The reason they don't know much about most Gibsons is because the hardly stock any. The last time I was at this GC (and I'll admit I don't go there much) they had 5 LP's, 2 SG's, no hollow/semi hollows and no acoustics. Out of the 5 LP's only one was a gloss USA model. NO Historic models at all. I asked about an R9 and the guy honestly didn't know what I was talking about.

Like B Putt said, How is this "Representing the line"?

[K Bolas (lespaul1963)]

I've noticed that of the smaller stores within 30 miles of where I live, a few of them are former Gibson dealers. When the economy went south a few years ago, so did their ability to meet Gibson minimums. I understand what Henry has stated above and I realize that business is business. Just the same, so much of this business was built on personal relationships and I find it incredibly sad when a shop owner has to choose between being an "Authorized Gibson Dealer" and switching to selling exclusively Fender, Ibanez, Vox and such to keep the doors open. Strangely enough, several of these shops offer Taylors, both acoustic and electric and it is common knowledge that these too are pricey instruments. Bob Taylor must be doing something that works in order to be able to maintain a business relationship with these smaller shops. It might be worth Gibson to look into it if they haven't already.

[P Tirman (DocT)]

m dailey (milod), on 20 July 2010 - 01:16 PM, said:

Y'know, there is a possible solution here.

A buying coop. Out here there have been a number of them. The problem, however, is handling the buying and then the same sort of problem of getting product to stores that can move it - and "ma and pa" operators willing to put their necks out a bit with "partners." I've seen it work; I've seen it fail.

m

Good idea. Actually a great idea.

[G Platzer (BCRGreg)]

H Juszkiewicz (HenryJ), on 18 July 2010 - 11:07 AM, said:

I have to make a bold statement, which many of you may not agree with.

The reason that small dealers are dying is because consumers will not support them. In a free economy, it is you the fan and the customer who gets to choose by spending your hard earned money. If you spend your money at small dealers, I can guarantee Gibson and everyone else in the industry will be there. The fact is, as a group, you do not spend your money there.

There is not a single consumer who does not look at Thoman's catalog offerings in Europe. His prices are incredibly aggressive, the service is exceptional and he has a 500,000 square foot distribution center that ships product to most consumers within 24 hours. He has millions invested in inventory.

He is an aggressive and competent business man who is able to make a profit even though his prices are very low (very low profit margins). No small shop in Europe can stay in business at his very competitive prices, and so where do consumers buy?

Since I have been in this industry, I have found it to be the most price oriented business in the world. Every guitar player seeks out the lowest priced product, and then goes to the local shop and says, "Sell me your guitar at this price or I will walk". These small shop owners gets dozens of calls every day from people shopping price. If they put their inventory online, the situation gets even worse as guitar players will shop the world and hammer the poor small business person. Come on guys, who is going to tell me they know a player that paid more of a guitar because of a relationship. Yes it happens, but not enough to support a small shop. People do not as a rule pay more regardless. I don't think they should have too. I think the fan is always right, and we are there to service our valuable fan. And the best way to get a lower price on a product is to buy from an aggressive merchant that does high volume and probably has only so-so service.

Look at other industries. Look at consumer electronics. How many small stores are left. Where do you buy a big screen TV: Best Buy, Dixon's, Amazon or Joe's TV Shop? Why is Walmart the largest retailer in the world, because they charge higher prices, and have a more limited selection?

Brands and companies react to what consumers want. That is the only way we can succeed. My sin is that I have studied other industries and have gone to where consumers are going before other brands and companies in this industry. I have used strategies and tactics that allowed brands and companies to thrive, and ruined companies that did not adopt them. The sin is to give to consumers what they really want based on their buying behavior.

People bring up stores like Centre City Music, and Gruhn's as small merchants. They may have smaller stores, but they are some of the largest volume dealers in the country and they are extremely aggressive in pricing as is the great store in Cologne which is building a new distribution warehouse with thousands of square feet.

We do our share to support those retailers that have a good customer base. We have Business Development Managers that help them with annual business plans, District Product Specialists that travel to the store and help with training and merchandising, Relationship managers that provide direct line account support, and an extensive 24 hour computerized systems allowing account management. We give smaller dealers significantly better credit terms than large dealer because the smaller guys have a harder time with financing. The average store turns a guitar 4 times a year (Thomann probably 20 times a year) and we extend 90 day terms meaning we fully finance the independent store site. This cost $$$$ money. We cannot support a single store visit that can easily run $1000 when the store sells 10 of our instruments a year, let alone the rich support each of our retailers get.

While you may complain about the demise of small local retailers, it is not the brands and companies that are killing them. It is the price driven consumer. It has happened in every industry, and it is now happening in ours. I think, the consumer and fan are always right.

Well, you have balls, Henry, I'll give you that. You have no idea what you are talking about, but you have balls.

I invite you to come and spend a few days in my shop. THEN read what you have posted here. If you still believe what you typed, then Gibson is doomed.

[P aruwi (PeteR)]

H Juszkiewicz (HenryJ), on 18 July 2010 - 11:07 AM, said:

I have to make a bold statement, which many of you may not agree with.

The reason that small dealers are dying is because consumers will not support them. In a free economy, it is you the fan and the customer who gets to choose by spending your hard earned money. If you spend your money at small dealers, I can guarantee Gibson and everyone else in the industry will be there. The fact is, as a group, you do not spend your money there.

There is not a single consumer who does not look at Thoman's catalog offerings in Europe. His prices are incredibly aggressive, the service is exceptional and he has a 500,000 square foot distribution center that ships product to most consumers within 24 hours. He has millions invested in inventory.

He is an aggressive and competent business man who is able to make a profit even though his prices are very low (very low profit margins). No small shop in Europe can stay in business at his very competitive prices, and so where do consumers buy?

Since I have been in this industry, I have found it to be the most price oriented business in the world. Every guitar player seeks out the lowest priced product, and then goes to the local shop and says, "Sell me your guitar at this price or I will walk". These small shop owners gets dozens of calls every day from people shopping price. If they put their inventory online, the situation gets even worse as guitar players will shop the world and hammer the poor small business person. Come on guys, who is going to tell me they know a player that paid more of a guitar because of a relationship. Yes it happens, but not enough to support a small shop. People do not as a rule pay more regardless. I don't think they should have too. I think the fan is always right, and we are there to service our valuable fan. And the best way to get a lower price on a product is to buy from an aggressive merchant that does high volume and probably has only so-so service.

Look at other industries. Look at consumer electronics. How many small stores are left. Where do you buy a big screen TV: Best Buy, Dixon's, Amazon or Joe's TV Shop? Why is Walmart the largest retailer in the world, because they charge higher prices, and have a more limited selection?

Brands and companies react to what consumers want. That is the only way we can succeed. My sin is that I have studied other industries and have gone to where consumers are going before other brands and companies in this industry. I have used strategies and tactics that allowed brands and companies to thrive, and ruined companies that did not adopt them. The sin is to give to consumers what they really want based on their buying behavior.

People bring up stores like Centre City Music, and Gruhn's as small merchants. They may have smaller stores, but they are some of the largest volume dealers in the country and they are extremely aggressive in pricing as is the great store in Cologne which is building a new distribution warehouse with thousands of square feet.

We do our share to support those retailers that have a good customer base. We have Business Development Managers that help them with annual business plans, District Product Specialists that travel to the store and help with training and merchandising, Relationship managers that provide direct line account support, and an extensive 24 hour computerized systems allowing account management. We give smaller dealers significantly better credit terms than large dealer because the smaller guys have a harder time with financing. The average store turns a guitar 4 times a year (Thomann probably 20 times a year) and we extend 90 day terms meaning we fully finance the independent store site. This cost $$$$ money. We cannot support a single store visit that can easily run $1000 when the store sells 10 of our instruments a year, let alone the rich support each of our retailers get.

While you may complain about the demise of small local retailers, it is not the brands and companies that are killing them. It is the price driven consumer. It has happened in every industry, and it is now happening in ours. I think, the consumer and fan are always right.

I live one hour from Thomann and visit them a few times a year
and I know him, since he was a "mom and pop" shop in the 70s
The village, he's located doesn't have 500 people living there....

It's not only the price - it's fair trading - all over the years.

BTW Thomann had the same "chance" as many other shops all over the world......
ok, he made his "thing" - others don't......

http://www.thomann.d...fo_history.html

Peter

[m dailey (milod)]

Greg...

I really hate to say this, but at least on the northern plains of small town America - and from all I hear, that includes Canada - I've seen many, many ma and pa businesses go belly up over the past 40 years, and that has been at an increasing rate. "Downtown" functionally is dead; there's no alternative cluster of retailers.

I think it's been a disaster for small towns, but as soon as the "big box" stores got within an easy driving distance, the small business community of "average capable" operators died. The number of small franchisers dropped like a rock. The Montgomery Ward and Sears and J.C. Penny stores in small towns closed down.

The Internet makes it "worse."

Yeah, there's a place for an exceptional operator, but seldom in the "ma and pa" type of clothing store, music store, hardware store, etc., as once there was.

When I was a kid in the '50s, in a town of 1,500 we had three or four ladies clothing shops, ditto radio-tv stores that did repairs, three car dealers, two grocers, three men's clothing stores that also sold shoes, etc., etc., etc. We'd drive to "the city" two or three times a year for fancy stuff and mostly an excuse to have a couple of family meals in a nicer restaurant.

Uwanna guess what I saw last time I visited the place?

I would dearly love to say Henry is full of prune juice or the results thereof. I can't.

OTOH, I've also concluded that a manufacturer that is not constantly evaluating its pipeline to the customer is probably in trouble. Too few outlets and they own you. Too many and costs of managing that can get out of hand.

I have a couple of friends who do quite well retailing. Others are on a slow slide of entropy attempting to compete as one would have run a store n 1955 as their parents did.

So... I'm not saying I think Gibson has all the answers; HenryJ essentially stated the same thing. But ma and pa businesses have to adapt, too. That's why I suggested a buying coop. There are other options, too. Still, I keep thinking about the good, high quality American television brands and the small dealers that sold them that no longer exist.

m

[A Jordan (vortexx)]

Here's an idea - I don't know if this has already been considered. Have a smaller package deal for the smaller stores that can't afford the whole line. This would allow the smaller stores to keep the basic models. The buyers would be able to choose to go to a bigger store if they want a bigger selection.

[M Ryan (Malikon)]

G Platzer (BCRGreg), on 28 July 2010 - 01:53 PM, said:

Well, you have balls, Henry, I'll give you that. You have no idea what you are talking about, but you have balls.

I invite you to come and spend a few days in my shop. THEN read what you have posted here. If you still believe what you typed, then Gibson is doomed.

This is the part that really made me raise my eyebrows.

"If they put their inventory online, the situation gets even worse as guitar players will shop the world and hammer the poor small business person. "

Bug the poor small business person to sell them a guitar? I'd assume a small business person wants to sell a guitar. Why would it even be an issue as long as everyone was selling them for the same prices because the dealers got them for the same prices?

If my local Mom and Pop could sell 5 Gibson LP's a year for the same price as the other guys, why is that a bad thing? Maybe they sell 5 LP's and 2 SG's a year. That's still 7 people that walked into that store, got good service and walked out with a guitar.

Forcing a small business owner to buy $100,000. worth of product is ridiculous.

Obviously it doesn't matter because I'm sure Gibson is doing just fine selling their guitars through GC/MF, but I'll never buy one from them. The ones in GC are beat up and badly need a setup, and I don't like the idea of buying a $3,700. guitar online sight unseen, so that leaves me nothing but the used market.

Maybe I can find a Mom and Pop store that has some used Gibsons. I'm in Chicago, I'm sure I can find one used.

There's something very, very fishy about this entire topic and a lot of the corporate answers sound just like that. Corporate double speak answers.

Actually pretty much every single answer to almost any question asked on this board has seemed like a very corporate, carefully worded answer that manages to use many words while actually saying very little.

[E Lott (EGL)]

P aruwi (PeteR), on 28 July 2010 - 01:16 PM, said:

I live one hour from Thomann and visit them a few times a year
and I know him, since he was a "mom and pop" shop in the 70s
The village, he's located doesn't have 500 people living there....

It's not only the price - it's fair trading - all over the years.

BTW Thomann had the same "chance" as many other shops all over the world......
ok, he made his "thing" - others don't......

http://www.thomann.d...fo_history.html

Peter

Hi Peter,

I've had a similar experience to yours here in the Midwest. My local Gibson dealer, Eddie's Guitars, keeps an incredible selection of Gibsons in stock all the time and moves the daylights out of them. I was in the store about 3 months ago to pick up a Marshall Lead and Bass stack and saw a 50th Anniversary 1957 Les Paul Standard Goltop with a Korina back and neck. Got in the car, went home, called the store and went back and got the guitar. Eddie's is very fair with trades and doesn't mess around one bit when someone wants to do business with them. Here's their "thing" - you will get a huge selection of top flight merchandise to choose from, it will be in mint condition when you get it, they will qualify your timeline and you will be requested to set up an advance appointment before you simply show up so that they can serve their customers in a professional, orderly manner. Here's where the world divides: those that don't get it cry and whine about the qualification/appointment structure and those that do are die hard fans of their business model. They've adapted their model over the years (2nd generation owner works his tail off to run a successful business) and they've been at it for four decades. I get great pricing and the service is the added touch that makes it work. Now I have a partnership with the store (just ordered two VOS models from them). www.EddiesGuitars.com

[P aruwi (PeteR)]

m dailey (milod), on 20 July 2010 - 07:16 PM, said:

Y'know, there is a possible solution here.

A buying coop. Out here there have been a number of them. The problem, however, is handling the buying and then the same sort of problem of getting product to stores that can move it - and "ma and pa" operators willing to put their necks out a bit with "partners." I've seen it work; I've seen it fail.

m

This can be another possible solution, too.

http://www.fgnguitar...istributor.html

Think Elitist......

Peter

[P Petiniot (Blues4U)]

I don't think Gibson has any desire to allow there to be distributors or coops in the U.S.--They have no problems with it in other countries but no dice here-- too bad-

[S Berrian (The_Sentry)]

Post 101: For What It's Worth....

I think people are forgetting something here. Whether the guitar is bought new or used, from a giant retail outlet like Guitar Center or Best Buy, or from an online boutique like Sam Ash or ZZ Sounds or Musicians Friend, or used at a pawn shop, or ebay, or craigslist....

They aren't setting up the guitars, or doing the repairs, or the modifications if they are required. More times often than not people find reputable techs in their area to do this sort of work...and most of them work in small shops, or own small shops. Point: If they aren't exactly enamored with Gibson as a brand, and they're doing a lot of setup work for said customers and the product isn't satisfactory...it comes back to haunt Gibson because the customer who just spent a good chunk of money (sometimes a LOT of money) doesn't receive glowing feedback on something they just forked out money for...often times to the tune of thousands of dollars.

It is all about the guitar, no matter where it's bought. But bear in mind that unless it plays beautifully right out the gate (which realistically DOES NOT HAPPEN) it's going to go to a small shop.

And no, said retail chain outlets or online outlets don't reference local talent in a customer's area to do this sort of work. (Or if they do, there is a stigma with having someone from say...Guitar Center "fixing" your guitar for you.)

[J Hollenbeck (Jaxson)]

Perhaps this is the way we will do business in the future. We just watched as the US taxpayer bailed out banks who were "to big to fail", the flip side is everyone else is too small to succeed...
I would make this suggestion, allow smaller shops to display units and drop ship products to customers, just like large volume online dealers do. Most do not have a large inventory stacked to the ceiling waiting to ship, they just take the order and the factory or a wholesaler drop ships it, this would dovetail with the idea of a dealer "Co-Op"...it would be a win win for the shops and the factory. Gibson would maintain a presence in the small markets, the small dealers would be able to make a profit and the big box stores would not lose anything...
The upside;
1. Buyers could order what they want.
2. It would be "brand new" from the shop...made just for that customer.
3. Dealers wouldn't have a lot of stock stored in shops collecting dust and getting scratched up or dried out.
4. Gibson would know exactly what the public wanted. The ultimate "green" approach to selling guitars..Saving trees and exotic wood by only building them when they are ordered.
5. Big Box stores could still the idea of having in your hand today...
6. Gibson would fill two market niches, the Boutique buyer and the impulse buyer...

[D Schulteis (Deej)]

Impulse buying... that about nails it, Jaxson.

GC is for impluse buyers. But with the smaller shops locked out of the Gibson market, your only selection (almost state-wide) is what they have there for the impluse buyers.

Given 2 Gibson dealers in a town of 300K people, but at least 3 other music stores in town... GC and the other may have a selection of 10-15 Gibsons, mostly fadeds and a couple of _really_ expensive customs. If those other 3 stores had a mere 5 Gibsons each, selection would have just increased 2 fold - doubling the chance of finding the next guitar purchase.

1) Let small dealers back in the business. More local choice and selection cannot be a bad deal for Gibson, I would think.

2) Let them show stock online. Makes it easier for a potential buyer decide if a 50 mile drive to another store is worth it to try out something they have there.

GC selection is made for impulse purchase, not researched ones. Not having much choice in locations to purchase from, and only GC selections... my next "impulse" purchase promises to be a long way off until I find _the_ guitar that has to be mine.

Deej

[J GGoerge (joey257)]

Quote

I would make this suggestion, allow smaller shops to display units and drop ship products to customers, just like large volume online dealers do. Most do not have a large inventory stacked to the ceiling waiting to ship, they just take the order and the factory or a wholesaler drop ships it, this would dovetail with the idea of a dealer "Co-Op"...it would be a win win for the shops and the factory.

So the buyer would have just another place to order a guitar that he never got try out? He got to sample the model, but not THE ONE he will own?

No thanks, not enough. I want to take my guitar home with me - the one I tested, and A/Bed and inspected, not hope it shows up on my front porch on a 0degree winter day or 100degree summer day ready to play and with no quality issues. I want to be able to return a guitar if something does arise after the purchse, and not have to wait to get another one as a replacment.

Small shops, to be competition for GC et. al., need inventory they can sell NOW, otherwise I ain't buying. I realize too many others don't worry about trying them out 1st, or enjoy keeping their fingers crossed as a guitar ships ground, but when that happens with Gibson, I will find another brand to buy.