[J Kimble (FLICKOFLASH)]

I have a local Mom & Pops store within walking Distance to me & I noticed alot of the high end guitars are not moving, They still have a NOS Jimmy Page authentic & have been sitting on it for years.

They have a Gibson ES 175 for about 4 K & have a more than compable Ibanez with a more fanciers trims & vintage looks for under 600.00

Have you seen self sitters in your neck of the woods

[M Ryan (Malikon)]

No shelf sitters because the little stores I like to check out don't have Gibson unless they're used.

But yes I'd say they're unbelievably overpriced. It's common knowledge the prices were raised "just because." Not because the quality improved, not because the parts and wood improved, only for the sole reason of trying to fool people into thinking that more expensive somehow equals better. Which is far from the truth, it's not better, it's just more expensive.

Gibson wants to be the Rolls Royce of guitars and 80% of the price is just that logo on the headstock, and most people know it. Even the ones who pay $5000. for an LP know deep down inside it's not worth it, that's why they defend it so vehemently. Because to do otherwise would be admitting you got robbed.

Personally I think they've priced themselves right out of relevance. Henry wants to sell an experience instead of a good guitar. And most actual guitarists would rather just have a good guitar.

I'm surprised it's even a question actually. Everyone knows they're extremely overpriced.

When you can get a better one built cheaper by a private luthier, there's something wrong.

I have some great ideas I'd love to see Gibson implement because I talk with a lot of musicians and I hear a lot of the same complaints over and over, and it's not just the price it's the quality. But I don't bother to share my ideas because I really don't think it would matter and they'd fall on deaf ears. To be honest I haven't even noticed Henry on this board in a while, guess the truth scared him off.

Maybe he thought we'd all be gushing to praise him and his awesomeness, and then when he realized his "fans" were actually pretty angry with the raw deal we've been getting, and that the vast majority of us buy used or buy knockoffs, he left.

You can't tell people the truth when they really just want praise. There are so many little things that Gibson could do to be relevant to active musicians, and more then that, to get the attention of the younger generation. But they won't do it, you know it and I know it.

Why are Schecter and ESP/LTD getting so big all of a sudden and why are so many young people wanting those guitars? Because they're doing what Gibson should've done. Give people what they actually want and not try to force overpriced crap on them that they don't want.

They just really don't care about selling good guitars anymore, and everyone knows it.

Look at the ESP EC-1000 and ask yourself just why didn't Gibson think of that stuff first? The colors, the upgrades right out of the box, a nice setup, etc.

The whole thing needs to be redone. Quit all the stupid and confusing lines and just have say 3 lines. Historics and Standards and Customs. The Standards should be made with the same quality and attention to detail that the historics are. There should be more colors and more options, better upgrades, etc. There should also be a line of guitars aimed at young people. Make the horn more pointy like ESP, offer some cool colors besides 10 different shades of (Brownburst.)

Imagine how awesome a vintage sunburst would look if the "burst" color were green or purple that fades into the traditional black? That would be awesome, eyecatching, and it would attract the kids.

But I doubt I'd ever see that happen, the "purists" would howl, and the guitar would still probably cost $3,000. so a 20 year old player is STILL going to go buy the ESP.

I love Gibson and Fender, but Gibson has just turned into an antiquated company that doesn't really appeal to working musicians or young players.

Would you rather be a Chevy or be a Porche? Clearly they want to be Porche, but in the long run most folks will actually get the chance to drive a Chevy, not a Porche.

It's sad actually. I'd love to see local players playing Gibsons instead of Epiphones/Shecters/ESP's, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Gibson just doesn't care.

Because if you can't afford their stupidly expensive guitars, you can always buy their "beginner" guitars, since that's what they call Epiphone. Which is also extremely insulting to professional musicians who use an Epiphone.

The whole thing is just screwed up. I never thought I'd see a guitar company turn into a bunch of snobs.

Maybe if Henry spent a year living like a normal person he'd see how ridiculous $6,000. guitars and $100. T-Shirts really are. But I imagine he has about as much a grasp on reality as Paris Hilton or Donald Trump. Clueless and living in a fantasy world they can afford to build around them. Meanwhile the rest of us live in the real world and shake our heads at the pretentious postering.

How is it that Fender can still manage to seem young and cool, while Gibson seems old and stodgy? Does Gibson really think a 15 year old kid who plays guitar wants to save up for 5 years to buy a corporate grandpa guitar? They're an example of luxurious lifestyle and american greed and pretty much the very thing most kids these days want nothing to do with.

I teach with my Epiphone and an LP knockoff (agile) and I talk to my students about electric guitars and different companies all the time. And believe me the things I hear them say about Gibson makes my comments look like love and high praise.

I don't hate Gibson or Henry (hey, I don't even know him) but I don't fool myself into thinking me, my money, or my students have any real meaning to Henry and Gibson. They just seem to have blinders on and only want to hear and see what they want to see anyway.

I'm sure I constantly seem like a Gibson hater, and I'm sorry for that, I really am, because I don't hate them. But I do hate what they've become.

[J GGoerge (joey257)]

Quote

I'm surprised it's even a question actually. Everyone knows they're extremely overpriced.

Extremely overpriced??? Compared to whom???

Rickenbacker 330FG Electric Guitar $1,899.99
Taylor T5 Standard Guitar with Maple Top $2,399.00 - $2,499.99
Taylor T3 Electric Guitar with Stoptail $2,249.00 - $2,399.00
Gretsch Guitars G6122-1959 Chet Atkins Country Gentleman $2,749.99
Gretsch Guitars Professional Collection G6128T Power Jet Electric Guitar $1,974.99
PRS 25th Anniversary Custom 24 Nickel Hardware Electric Guitar $2,808.00
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 25th Anniversary $2995.00
Paul Reed Smith Limited Edition Custom 22 Soapbar $3195.00
Gibson Les Paul Supreme $3409
Gibson Les Paul Standard Traditional Plus Electric Guitar $2,299.00
Gibson Les Paul Standard Traditional Pro Electric Guitar $1,899.99
Gibson Les Paul Studio Electric Guitar $799.00 - $1,319.00
Gibson Custom ES-339 Fat Neck Semi Hollow Electric Guitar $1,999.00
Gibson Custom ES-335 Satin Finish Electric Guitar $2,249.00
Gibson SG 61 Reissue Electric Guitar: $1,999.00
Fender American Standard Stratocaster Electric Guitar $999.99 - $1,149.99
Fender American Vintage 57 Stratocaster Electric Guitar $1,599.99
Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster Ash Electric Guitar $1,649.99
G&L Comanche Electric Guitar $2,212.50
G&L ASAT Electric Bass Guitar $1,499.99


{these are inflated GC MAP prices, so you can certainly do better, especially on the Gibsons}

Gibson prices don't seem bad at all, except when compared to cheaper guitars like Chinese Epiphones and Korean/Asian Schectors and ESPs...typically you get what you pay for. Those cheaper guitars?...you can have them, they just do not do it for me...but then I ain't no kid either and prefer/can afford to do better. Sure USA Fenders are great, but its a different beast to build, and how many Strats or Teles does a person really need?

Of course Gibson has some models that ARE expensive, and some RIs get silly $$, but just because expensive Custom Shop models can cost much more, it still doesn't automatically mean they are 'over-priced'. There are still other brands (PRS) that are comparable price-wise.

Quote

They just really don't care about selling good guitars anymore, and everyone knows it.

You keep saying this, but I just haven't seen it - the vast majority of the new Gibsons I have seen are fine quality, the same or better then other guitars that are comparable in price, and most important - always have GREAT sound.

If everyone knows so much that is negative about them, why do they continue to do so well?? 30% increase annually ain't exactly small potatoes.

On the contrary - from what I see, Gibson offers great variety, with plenty of beautiful looking and sounding guitars that cover a huge price range from $800 on up.

[D Thompson (rockstar232007)]

All I know is that I have a somewhat decent job (that's a slight overstatement btw), but I couldn't afford a new Gibson to save my life! I even had trouble finding a decent USED LP that I could afford (my Classic)! So, yes I do believe that Gibsons are a tad overpriced (and NOT just in this economy). In fact, they were overpriced 20+ years ago.

I'm not poor, but I'm not rich either, so I will continue to buy used, because at least I have a better chance at getting a great guitar that won't leave me (and my fiance) out on the street!

[J GGoerge (joey257)]

And they were similarly 'overpriced' 50 years ago too.

Quality is not cheap, and the Les paul was conceived to be an expensive model from the beginning. Now they have the Studios and the Fadeds at a 1/3 the cost of a Standard...how much cheaper do they need to be?

Es335s were about 10% of a new car ($270 vs $2775 for a chevy in 1959), and prices are comparable today, yet now they offer the Satin at 2/3 the price.

Gibsons are a higher class guitar, by design, and always have been. That means they MAY cost more money then cheaper-build products. It has always been that way. At least one usually gets what they pay for - I know I always have (though those new capacitors are embarassing).

[d vallejos (duane v)]

Interesting question:

Below is what i've purchased from Gibson in 1.5 years (all new).

2009 Joan Jet MM = $666
2009 Gibson SG faded = $699
2009 Satin Cherry LPJ = $799
2009 Faded White Gibson MM = $299

I would state that I recieved outstanding value for the $2463 I spent.

[D Colegrove (Daniel)]

I have nothing in the way of data to back this up but I'm thinking they are on the high side. I,m not saying that they are not worth that much but I can't see them moving too well in the present economic situation.

From my viewpoint alone:

In 2007 I would have been able to drop 3 to 4k on a guitar...

Today... Not a chance.

EDIT: Come to think of it I couldn't scrape up a grand for a decent studio... Thats how much things have changed.

[K Bolas (lespaul1963)]

J Galante (Johnny G), on 15 August 2010 - 07:00 PM, said:

Extremely overpriced??? Compared to whom???

Rickenbacker 330FG Electric Guitar $1,899.99
Taylor T5 Standard Guitar with Maple Top $2,399.00 - $2,499.99
Taylor T3 Electric Guitar with Stoptail $2,249.00 - $2,399.00
Gretsch Guitars G6122-1959 Chet Atkins Country Gentleman $2,749.99
Gretsch Guitars Professional Collection G6128T Power Jet Electric Guitar $1,974.99
PRS 25th Anniversary Custom 24 Nickel Hardware Electric Guitar $2,808.00
Paul Reed Smith Custom 24 25th Anniversary $2995.00
Paul Reed Smith Limited Edition Custom 22 Soapbar $3195.00
Gibson Les Paul Supreme $3409
Gibson Les Paul Standard Traditional Plus Electric Guitar $2,299.00
Gibson Les Paul Standard Traditional Pro Electric Guitar $1,899.99
Gibson Les Paul Studio Electric Guitar $799.00 - $1,319.00
Gibson Custom ES-339 Fat Neck Semi Hollow Electric Guitar $1,999.00
Gibson Custom ES-335 Satin Finish Electric Guitar $2,249.00
Gibson SG 61 Reissue Electric Guitar: $1,999.00
Fender American Standard Stratocaster Electric Guitar $999.99 - $1,149.99
Fender American Vintage 57 Stratocaster Electric Guitar $1,599.99
Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster Ash Electric Guitar $1,649.99
G&L Comanche Electric Guitar $2,212.50
G&L ASAT Electric Bass Guitar $1,499.99


{these are inflated GC MAP prices, so you can certainly do better, especially on the Gibsons}

Gibson prices don't seem bad at all, except when compared to cheaper guitars like Chinese Epiphones and Korean/Asian Schectors and ESPs...typically you get what you pay for. Those cheaper guitars?...you can have them, they just do not do it for me...but then I ain't no kid either and prefer/can afford to do better. Sure USA Fenders are great, but its a different beast to build, and how many Strats or Teles does a person really need?

Of course Gibson has some models that ARE expensive, and some RIs get silly $, but just because expensive Custom Shop models can cost much more, it still doesn't automatically mean they are 'over-priced'. There are still other brands (PRS) that are comparable price-wise.



You keep saying this, but I just haven't seen it - the vast majority of the new Gibsons I have seen are fine quality, the same or better then other guitars that are comparable in price, and most important - always have GREAT sound.

If everyone knows so much that is negative about them, why do they continue to do so well?? 30% increase annually ain't exactly small potatoes.

On the contrary - from what I see, Gibson offers great variety, with plenty of beautiful looking and sounding guitars that cover a huge price range from $800 on up.

Johnny,

I think the idea behind the question was essentially "priced too high for the current economy". Taking that into account, yeah Gibson, Taylor, Rick, Gretsch, et. al., are up there. I don't suspect many of those listed above are going to move nearly as fast as the axes in the $600 to $1200 range. If one is a working musician, gigs are harder to come by; people aren't going out as much, celebrating whatever as much and as a result the clubs, bars and restaurants, as well as the private parties, aren't booking. If you have a day job, count yourself fortunate. You may not be working 40 hours a week or you may have seen a cut in wages and/or benefits. If one buys a guitar, say a LP, the choice is more likely to be a faded or studio as opposed to a LP Standard Traditional Pro or Plus. It seems that some of Gibsons mid-priced line ($2k to $3.5k) is too high, at least as from where I'm sitting. I realize that such judgment is somewhat subjective.

[D Wilkinson (Spokefellow)]

Does anyone know the manufacturing cost of a Les Paul Standard? Materials + labor. Is it even $500?

[J GGoerge (joey257)]

Quote

I think the idea behind the question was essentially "priced too high for the current economy". Taking that into account, yeah Gibson, Taylor, Rick, Gretsch, et. al., are up there. I don't suspect many of those listed above are going to move nearly as fast as the axes in the $600 to $1200 range.

Understood - people with no money won't be buying the more expensive goods. But it also seems there are plenty of people out there still willing to spend the extra $$ (how many "NGD" posts are on the different guitar forums, including Gretsch & Gibson?).


Anyway, I JUST got back from my local store (had to check out a Taylor T5X) and he says things are going OK, and now picking up - moving into a bigger space soon. "Thank God people still like music" is how he put it. He has TONS of cheaper models of all brands that sit and sit, but right now it's the newer Fenders and Gibsons he can't get (flood, Fender manufacturing issues, etc.) so there just aren't that many nice models sitting around...a few RIs are still there - but the SWEET $3000 Class 5 went in a few weeks, as did the smoking 335 I wanted, so someone is buying this stuff (besides me;))!

[S Sill (Scott Sill)]

Whether it is Gibson or any other brand, I can't see how a Les Paul that is a 59 remake can call for a 7,000 plus MSRP. I just find it hard to see a solid body guitar costing that much. I start to understand certain types of arch tops, semi hollows and acoustics could start to approach that level. It would be very difficult to sell a guitar at that price in this economy for sure.

[S Bryant (stageman20)]

Gibson's prices has always been high, even back in '52 when the Les Paul made it's debut. It's common sense that if you want a quality-made insturment that will probably surpass your lifetime, you will pay a premium for it. There are some Gibson models however that have extremely high prices that in my mind are unjustifiable. I think about 80% of the current lineup has resonable prices and sell for much less than the site's MSRP states (at least at the music stores here).

[B Barney (Mr. Sonex)]

S Bryant (stageman20), on 16 August 2010 - 03:51 PM, said:

Gibson's prices has always been high, even back in '52 when the Les Paul made it's debut. It's common sense that if you want a quality-made insturment that will probably surpass your lifetime, you will pay a premium for it. There are some Gibson models however that have extremely high prices that in my mind are unjustifiable. I think about 80% of the current lineup has resonable prices and sell for much less than the site's MSRP states (at least at the music stores here).

[B Barney (Mr. Sonex)]

Gibsons do cost more than other guitars. They are also better than other guitars. Better products always cost more, because they have better design features and materials than other products. Right now you can get a new USA made Gibson from just under $500 to well over$10,000. That's a pretty good range of choices and I don't know of an American made guitar that that is a better deal.

[M Ryan (Malikon)]

S Bryant (stageman20), on 16 August 2010 - 03:51 PM, said:

Gibson's prices has always been high, even back in '52 when the Les Paul made it's debut. It's common sense that if you want a quality-made insturment that will probably surpass your lifetime, you will pay a premium for it. There are some Gibson models however that have extremely high prices that in my mind are unjustifiable. I think about 80% of the current lineup has resonable prices and sell for much less than the site's MSRP states (at least at the music stores here).

"The Goldtop was originally offered in 1952 at $210." -Paul Balmer, The Les Paul Handbook. pg#22.

It'd be interesting to do the math for inflation and see what that would be today. Interesting though that the LP's were only about $20. more then the Fender Telecaster, according to the book.

Curious about the sub $500. USA made Gibson that post #14 suggests.

Edit: Ahh, must mean the Melody Maker for $489. I think anyone with $500. to spend on an electric guitar expects a lot more for their money then what the Melody Maker provides. That looks like a $100. "cheap" guitar, regardless of the name on the headstock.

[B Barney (Mr. Sonex)]

[/quote] Edit: Ahh, must mean the Melody Maker for $489. I think anyone with $500. to spend on an electric guitar expects a lot more for their money then what the Melody Maker provides. That looks like a $100. "cheap" guitar, regardless of the name on the headstock.
[/quote]

How does it sound?

[R Sage (AXE®)]

D Wilkinson (Spokefellow), on 16 August 2010 - 01:42 PM, said:

Does anyone know the manufacturing cost of a Les Paul Standard? Materials + labor. Is it even $500?

If it were only that simple.

It's not.

[p carlino (jimihendrix)]

there is a cool "inflation" calculator that shows that if a les paul was $549.00 in 1959...today it should be priced at $4,102.28 in 2010...check it out...

http://www.dollartim...s/inflation.htm

[S Bryant (stageman20)]

Melody Maker really should not have a "Gibson" name on it. You can get a much better Epiphone for the same price. It only has a single coil (not even a P-90) and isn't the greatest sounding. Fit to finish is lacking as well, but I guess it's to be expected of an American-made instrument for $500 or less, lol.

[K Gilbert (Kevin1960)]

I addressed this topic early in the forum and got my head bit off. My thought is that Gibson already has some really well prices quality guitars in the $6-700 price point in the Fadeds and Melody Makers but it would be great if they could offer something with a few more tone choices in that price range. Maybe something with a P-90 or a different kind of single coil or heaven forbid, a coil splitter. The traditionalists in the forum seem to almost fear seeing Gibson make something that they see as competition for their $3-4,000 Les Paul. They don't see that all of the great guitar in the world do not have to have an arched top, binding or a historic pedagree. I made the suggestion that something like the Marauder or the S-1 in a new look might be just what new players might go for. It is good to see that there are others with the same thinking.

Another side of this coin is economics. First of all we all want to get an increase in income every year. It is in our thought culture. There in lies the problem for manufacturers. They need to keep their product (Gibson is not exception) at competitive price while providing value to the customer. The cost of raw materials, fuel, labor and advertisement are not nor will they ever be fixed so prices will have to go up. I am no economist and could not tell you what the price of a LP in 1970 should be in 2010 dollars but I imagine that it is pretty well in line with inflation.

I really do not think that Gibson is overpriced but they could pay a little more attention to younger players getting started and getting them off to the right start in a Gibson product.