[K Gilbert (Kevin1960)]

Music is not all about flowers and happiness so we all know that there are some fairly passionate people here but that doesn't meant that they should be allowed to attempt to move the forum into an insult session. If we keep it constructive and honest without cursing, I can live with that. Even if people don't agree with me.

[M Weaver (Awfers)]

K Gilbert (Kevin1960), on 10 August 2010 - 09:46 PM, said:

Music is not all about flowers and happiness so we all know that there are some fairly passionate people here but that doesn't meant that they should be allowed to attempt to move the forum into an insult session. If we keep it constructive and honest without cursing, I can live with that. Even if people don't agree with me.

+1 to that...

[D Colegrove (Daniel)]

H Juszkiewicz (HenryJ), on 16 July 2010 - 07:51 AM, said:

I have just authorized many new members. A gentlemen who refused to leave his last name, UncleE, within minutes of being made a member left 7 different long posts on a our terrible lack of product quality, and some pretty inflammatory comments.

He claims he bought a Custom Shop product with numerous problems, but was unwilling to send it to us fix because of the high cost of freight. He then went on to say what great quality PRS and several and brands he apparently does not own from his registration information.

I have banned him from our group, but I would love the communities opinion. Should I lighten up? Is the
is appropriate? What do you think is appropriate in a forum seeking open and honest dialogue. All comments and opinions welcome.

The ban makes perfect sense and the way you handled it does as well.

Having said this though... Were it left to me?

I'd let the ranters hang themselves via "Community Lynch Mob"... They all eventually do.

Of course you can't let it devolve into anarchy but the universe has it's own way of sifting out the BS... Kind of a Zen approach if you get what I mean.

[r ferrell (raven999)]

I may not be the most intelligent individual on our rock, but I know that a reasoned and civil complaint is likelier to get a response, than a childish rant. That being said, for what it's worth, here's my two cents.

Over the last 30+ years, I've owned and road tested all the major brands, from the USA's to imports, and custom shop models. The main complaint I always hear is about cost, vs quality. I've had 6 Gibson Les Pauls, since 1979, one Jr, 2 Kalamazoo's ('79 Standard, and '78/'79 Custom) 2 Custom Shops, again, a Standard and Custom and now, a 50's Tribute. The quality was fairly consistant across the board, and yes, they were expensive, but each was well worth the cost. My complaint,is that in an era of dwindling resources, and rising production costs( i.e., import tariff, materials costs, shipping, etc.) instead of showing loyalty to the company that the complainers claim to "love", and trying to come up with reasonable, useful imput, the majority of post sound like sour grapes postings.
I'll admit, the older models were better, even more than the Custom Shop models, but no other company produces a comparable instrument at the same price. I think there is room for improvement in the Final QC department, but that is no excuse for people to rant and rave about how they prefer the other guys. The other guys COPY Gibson, that right there tells you who the best was, is, and will always be.

Thank-you for your time.

[J Luekemeyer (ACELUEK)]

r ferrell (raven999), on 05 October 2010 - 10:48 AM, said:

I may not be the most intelligent individual on our rock, but I know that a reasoned and civil complaint is likelier to get a response, than a childish rant. That being said, for what it's worth, here's my two cents.

Over the last 30+ years, I've owned and road tested all the major brands, from the USA's to imports, and custom shop models. The main complaint I always hear is about cost, vs quality. I've had 6 Gibson Les Pauls, since 1979, one Jr, 2 Kalamazoo's ('79 Standard, and '78/'79 Custom) 2 Custom Shops, again, a Standard and Custom and now, a 50's Tribute. The quality was fairly consistant across the board, and yes, they were expensive, but each was well worth the cost. My complaint,is that in an era of dwindling resources, and rising production costs( i.e., import tariff, materials costs, shipping, etc.) instead of showing loyalty to the company that the complainers claim to "love", and trying to come up with reasonable, useful imput, the majority of post sound like sour grapes postings.
I'll admit, the older models were better, even more than the Custom Shop models, but no other company produces a comparable instrument at the same price. I think there is room for improvement in the Final QC department, but that is no excuse for people to rant and rave about how they prefer the other guys. The other guys COPY Gibson, that right there tells you who the best was, is, and will always be.

Thank-you for your time.

Well said... I agree.

[K Gilbert (Kevin1960)]

H Juszkiewicz (HenryJ), on 16 July 2010 - 10:20 AM, said:

Great comments.

I wrote UncleE an email telling him to why he was removed and if I misunderstood his intentions or he wanted to be more constructive, we would give him access again.

I really want community input to make sure we have a healthy and honest dialogue. This should certainly allow for criticism and strong opinions, but it should also be respectful of the community and be aimed at a positive outcome.

Thanks for contributing!!!

The thing is this. If someone can not get their point across without delving into random attacks or vulgarity, I don't care to read their posts either. Thanks for the forum. If in any small way we are able to help Gibson, a company that we all care about that is what it is all about.

Best Regards

[m dailey (milod)]

Finally....

More folks recognizing that even if there's a complaint, you draw more interest with honey than with vinegar - and that vulgarity ain't a good way to draw support for any perspective.

-- Grouchy older guy comment: I think that in general our culture tends to be more coarse because we've lost the "classics" of our cultures whether Aristotle on rhetoric in the west or Confucian sources from the east. It's not that everyone should necessarily read them, but that they continue to be a cultural foundation. Instead anything written before last week gets panned as irrelevant and as a culture, there's a tendency to reflect "I want what I want when I want it or I'm gonna rant."

m

[K Gilbert (Kevin1960)]

Almost Platonian. Allowing a vulgar person to post is not much different than giving a crazy person his spear back. Giving someone a tool to do more damage than they could without it.

Sad truth is that in many cases we are more polite toward complete strangers than we are with family and friends. Though that does not appear to be the case here, I think it is a case of new rope not being good enough again. Hope you don't mind me reviving that one again.

[m dailey (milod)]

Well...

I've been accused of being a neoplatonist... <grin> So your comment was no shock.

As for the rope line... hey, consider where I live. Seriously, in relatively nearby Buffalo, Wyo., at least into 2004, instead of ribbon cutting for a new business, they'd have a mock hanging featuring the new biz owner as guest of honor at the necktie party. That's complete to handguns and blank cartridge firing.

m

[r akers (wrick)]

Being guilty myself of ranting, you might ask why they would do it on a public forum.Could be a last ditch effort to achieve the results, that couldnt be granted elsewhere.Some times wording and remarks are taking as insults when in fact they are just the misunderstood statements.I think after all said and done the person had some regrets and should,but wearing the same brand shoes it is very painful.Now Henrys comments on offering the gentleman another chance,clearly shows he human and having some understanding of the problem.Time heals wounds and showing some respect from all sides speeds the recovery.Maybe it cant be resolved to to ones likeing and it is time to move forward and be family again.Wrong yes,but hard to judge when I am not wearing the shoes.I think we all have said and done things we regret,but who likes to be reminded.

[K Gilbert (Kevin1960)]

Ranting can be a good thing. Shows fire in your gut. The only issue that some people seem to turn a good rant into an attack. From what I have read of Henry's responses, he seems truly interested in what the forum stands for. He has even taken actions based on comments that have been made here.The Les Paul Tribute for example. Heck I rant from time to time about political, social, economic issues. When you get a person like Henry who is obviously concerned about his company, that cares enough about his target customers to listen to their comments, praises, complaints and yes, even rants, it shows that he is a true believer in the principles that this great country was founded on. Yes I am talking about free speech and not only does he seem to believe in it, he seems to embrace it to the point of trying to get past the occasional vicious attack in order to see if there is a real concern that needs to be addressed. I am sure that someone out there will say I am brown-nosing but I am pretty sure that I am not getting anything under my tree this year from Henry. Then again someone once accused me of wanting to be a Gibson Policeman. I would seriously be interested in a badge. Given my current medically retired situation, they wouldn't even have to pay me.

[m dailey (milod)]

I'm a firm believer that one might rant with personal courtesy to people on the other side of an issue. You don't have to tell folks they're the terminal orifice of an alimentary canal to make your point about guitars or telephone service. In fact, do so crudely and I'll wager that you lose.

Period.

m

[S Sanchez (trekhead)]

Common sence should apply. I work in customer service and I've heard a lot of ranting and raving. Most times its just someone venting, but I have had to hang up on someone that's just plane abusive. I've read plenty of negative comments on this forum, but there they are posted for the world to see. As long as they are constructive comments or based on fact, then it should be okay to post. Rants based on nothing but bad blood or impressions, especially if they are crass, and insulting are not needed. Requiring full names and e-mail addresses seems like a good idea to me.